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SERENA Overcome With Nerves

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Jeff in Texas
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Re: SERENA Overcome With Nerves

Post by Jeff in Texas » Sep Sat 07, 2019 11:01 pm

Please don't embarrass yourself with statements that pretend Maria is a far better and more complete player than Serena. GS titles, ranking, H2H - virtually every category you can thing of, Serena blows Maria away. She is far from a one-dimensional player, although her serve has bailed her out of many difficult situations. It is fine to be a fan and cheer your player on, but delusional indicates something else. They aren't even close to the same league by any stat you use, however good Maria may have been in her prime.

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Re: SERENA Overcome With Nerves

Post by Grossefavourite » Sep Sun 08, 2019 11:46 am

Keep in mind, this is the 5th GS final in a row in which the WS have failed to win a set. That's 10 sets in a row, and yesterday was the best scoreline in any set. This goes back to W17 with Venus losing to Garbine and I'm sure it had an effect in the WS and the tour.

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Re: SERENA Overcome With Nerves

Post by Miss_Vee » Sep Sun 08, 2019 4:32 pm

Grossefave, I think this thread is about Serena, not the WS. I thought people did not treat Venus and Serena as if they were one person any longer.
I’m also noticing a tendency for everyone to treat this defeat, as if it were a bad case of nerves once again. Not so. Serena’s serves were thrown back at her with accuracy and depth right at her feet for the most part. It gave her nothing to work with effectively. However, once Bianca’s strategy of making Serena play every ball as much as possible was so effective, it threw Serena off her own game. Bianca’s serve was working, and she forced Serena into lots of errors.
As soon as that happened, Serena lost some confidence, and she had no freedom on her service games any longer. She then tried to force the issue, ending up with lots of DF. ShE made it interesting in set 2, but across the net was a young lady with as much chutzpah as Serena. That’s why Bianca won the USO. Serena did not lose it because of nerves. Bianca took it with her moxie!

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Re: SERENA Overcome With Nerves

Post by Grossefavourite » Sep Mon 09, 2019 9:25 am

Miss_Vee wrote:
Sep Sun 08, 2019 4:32 pm
Grossefave, I think this thread is about Serena, not the WS. I thought people did not treat Venus and Serena as if they were one person any longer.
I’m also noticing a tendency for everyone to treat this defeat, as if it were a bad case of nerves once again. Not so. Serena’s serves were thrown back at her with accuracy and depth right at her feet for the most part. It gave her nothing to work with effectively. However, once Bianca’s strategy of making Serena play every ball as much as possible was so effective, it threw Serena off her own game. Bianca’s serve was working, and she forced Serena into lots of errors.
As soon as that happened, Serena lost some confidence, and she had no freedom on her service games any longer. She then tried to force the issue, ending up with lots of DF. ShE made it interesting in set 2, but across the net was a young lady with as much chutzpah as Serena. That’s why Bianca won the USO. Serena did not lose it because of nerves. Bianca took it with her moxie!
Hello MissVee:

As the Russians say, no risk, no champagne. Bianca is awash in Dom Perignon, as were Osaka, Kerber and Halep. And good on her for seizing the opportunity Serena served her on a plate. She's a very good player and athlete, nevertheless. There are players who would've lost, no matter how badly Serena played. Let's see how sobering the day after is. She's no longer a challenger, an up and comer, a fairly tale princess. She's arrived, on top, Queen, and is now expected to win all her matches anywhere, anytime. How she responds is the key. Let's see how moxieful she is in her new role. Is this her natural level of play regardless of event or opponent? Time will tell.

All four of Serena's victors can be described as you did Bianca, and were so described by the press and fans, but have they continued that trajectory? Osaka, for a bit, but for the most part, they've floundered. Halep and Kerber winning W without dropping a set? Do you see them as formidable grass court players? Me, no. Halep, in particular, should've moved on from Wimbledon seemingly untouchable given the score and performance, but she hasn't, losing to TT. Add Sloanie and Ostapenko to that list.

Serena losing 4 GS finals in a row to four different players without coming close to winning a set with history beckoning, can only be the result of the weakening of at least one of her most important strengths, and in this case, it appears to be the mental component. This is a player who won a GS title while pregnant.

A veteran interviewer on Saturday was just not going to go along with the narrative that she was simply outplayed by her opponents, by putting it to her squarely, saying, in effect, "Serena, honestly, you played really really badly in London. Really badly. That was the worse performance." Serena felt otherwise, pointing to her Kerber match because she was too tired and post-partum to be competitive. With regard to this year's US Open, she said, in essence, "I love Bianca, she's a great girl but today I played my worse match of the entire tournament and this level is unacceptable. I must figure out why Serena is not showing up for finals."

My take is she's been able to quell or hide away from the psychological implications of her history making attempt during the early rounds, but on the day of the finals, there's nowhere to hide and it hits her, and when that happens, her feet are cemented in place against a competent opponent with nothing to lose and going for broke. She spends the entire match reacting to her opponent instead of having the freedom of mind to dictate.

As for Venus, it's inescapable that she and Serena, the two most dominant players at Wimbledon, have failed to win a set in three consecutive W finals. This links them, the sisterhood notwithstanding. That's the primary reason I might've appeared to have conflated them.

In any event, Serena must now recover what she's lost, ie her mental strength, focus and fear of losing, while Bianca must now show she really possesses what Serena has lost.

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Re: SERENA Overcome With Nerves

Post by Miss_Vee » Sep Mon 09, 2019 4:15 pm

Grossefave, the various points you presented above, have been well taken regarding Serena’s performance on Saturday in the USO final, against Bianca. While it is noteworthy that Serena is able to get to these finals at her age, playing opponents who are much younger, nobody ever illustrates the point that she is playing youngsters, who only bring one dimension to their game. Serena too plays at the baseline, but she has always relied on her power and accuracy of shot from the baseline, and her quickness of feet.

Let’s examine 3 of the players who beat her in the finals at Wimbledon and the USO the past 2 years.....Kerber and Osaka, and Halep. Serena now dismisses Kerber’s win in 2018, because she was not fit enough physically. Yet she made the final. I think that’s valid. However, the pressure on her was definitely a factor as well. Same at the USO in 2018 against Osaka. But I saw a power player just take out Serena in that match. Serena’s nerves played a big part initially as well. Wimbledon 2019, Halep came with a game plan and Serena’s feet were again glued to the baseline. Neither Halep or Kerber possess a game that would normally trouble Serena in peak condition, enough that they would beat her. But Osaka has the game to trouble Serena, when Osaka is playing at her best level now.

Fast forward to Bianca Andreescu. She started the year ranked at 157 or somewhere in there. I had heard about this kid when she was 16. But she kept having injury woes. She finishes last year once she was healthy, playing Challenger tournaments. She then started this year in Auckland, and took down an aging Venus, but a Venus who can still compete well. She took at last year’s AO champ, Wozniacki. All of the former top 10 players, or current top 10 back in January. It took all of Julia Goerges’ experience to beat Andreescu in that Auckland final. She won a lot of matches between January and March of this year, culminating in a humongous victory at Indian Wells this year. She beat a lot of top 10 players along the way. She gets injured. Took a lot of time off before returning to the tour. She wins a tournament in Canada on her return....her first tournament. I can only recall Serena, and Venus doing that on returning from injury. Then she follows it up with a USO title.

Those kinds of results should be saying something to a lot of people. This is not a Naomi Osaka kind of performance here. Win one big tourney, play poorly the next few tournaments, then come up big again at the USO. I love Naomi’s game as well, but she needs to add more mental fortitude to her game, as well as some variety of shots.

Bianca is different. She has so many options, and she is strong, powerful, but can still finesse the heck out of the ball. She took Serena out of her game on Saturday, and that’s when the nerves set in for Serena. She started off strong. Was up 40-15, in that first service game. But Bianca’s tactics won her that first game, and unsettled Serena. Bianca is younger, moves better, and can play from anywhere on the court. I also noticed that Serena did not allow her to use her variety much during the match. That means that Bianca out slugged Serena from the baseline, caused a lot of UE, or forced errors. And she served so much better. Put a lot of pressure on Serena to come up with the goods. Bianca oozes confidence on the court. Serena knew that She would meet Bianca in the final at the USO this year. She apparently told someone that’s who she would meet.
In her pre match presser here in Toronto this year, when asked if she knew much about Bianca, she replied that she knew of her, but had never played her. She also said that she knew that she had not played a lot of tournaments lately, but when she plays, she wins a lot. That impressed Serena.

What the rest of the year brings for Bianca, and the next year, nobody knows yet. Her matches will now be dissected, and other players are going to try to figure out how to beat her. But unless they can overpower her, or add something more to their games, or come to the battle with the mental fortitude that she possesses, um...it’s not going to be easy. She cannot win every match. But if she now manages her schedule properly, stays injury free, I say she has the kind of dynamic game that the other girls will have a tough time matching. Most of all, her unwillingness to go away in a match will continue to reap dividends for her.

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Re: SERENA Overcome With Nerves

Post by Grossefavourite » Sep Mon 09, 2019 5:28 pm

In any area of life, if you're facing a great deal of pressure, you'll rely on your strengths to get you through it, and in placing greater emphasis on that feature of your makeup, it's liable to buckle under the weight of expectation, failing to deliver the rewards/results you hoped for. That's what I saw in Serena on Saturday. Her two greatest strengths, her mind and her serve, were undoubtedly summoned as never before to bail her out. Her mind however had already been compromised before she'd even taken to the court given the significance of the moment before her, and her first serve swiftly buckled as the mind controls it. She managed to make only 44% of her first serves, a stat that spells defeat for any player. No player can win a GS final relying on second serves. Through 6 rounds, she was broken 3(?) times, if memory serves. On Saturday it was 6.

Clearly, Bianca was less unencumbered by the moment as Serena was, just as Osaka, Hapel and Kerber were, as they and Serena occupy two different mental universes and pressures to perform and succeed. She doesn't even compare to Serena in the USO final of 1999 between Serena and Hingis because Serena entered that match almost as the favorite expected to win despite Hingis' top ranking and GS titles. What's more, the WS had already become world famous with the expectation that they could win any match and title, and with none other than Graf declaring them best she'd ever played. Bianca did not face anything on par on Saturday.

Now, however, that Bianca is a GS champion, she's expected to beat any girl who has not won a title, and beat them decisively. Let's see if she was trained as the WS or even Sharapova were in believing wholeheartedly that they're the best and must win. Going from hunter to hunted is no mean feat in sport, particularly in one as fickle and tempermental as tennis. I won't put too much stock in the next couple of events because I'm sure she'll be celebrating and enjoying the myriad of business and entertainment opportunities on offer since her triumph. Thereafter, let's see.

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Re: SERENA Overcome With Nerves

Post by Miss_Vee » Sep Mon 09, 2019 7:04 pm

On the other hand, I saw a Serena who expected that she would win, because she had been so strong leading up to the final. She started her service game strong. Heck, she had 2 game points, but her younger, and yes pressure free opponent put pressure on her that first service game. She had returns land at her feet, and it put her under pressure immediately. Of course the pressure was enormous. But losing that first service game knocked her confidence sideways.
Yes, most of the WTA have had GS winners come and go. I was hoping that with her AO win, Osaka was going to flip the script. Did not happen. She is not mentally as tough as this kid Andreescu. I see the same belief, and intense desire to be the best in Andreescu. Osaka talks about it, and she has the desire, but she gets caught up in her own self defeating thought process. That’s not Andreescu. Her vision is clear, and she has that confidence that she can shake up things on the WTA. So far, she has done so. D
I prefer not to get caught up in what might happen down the road with Bianca. I, like the rest of Canada, am enjoying this moment. However, there is something about this girl that gives me confidence that as long as she stays healthy, she is the one that will be collecting lots of big titles. That’s what she has done this year, starting in January. I cannot wait for the YEC.

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Re: SERENA Overcome With Nerves

Post by djmm1962 » Sep Tue 10, 2019 6:50 am

I'm still disappointed and not ready to talk about it yet!!

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Re: SERENA Overcome With Nerves

Post by Grossefavourite » Sep Tue 10, 2019 10:05 am

djmm1962 wrote:
Sep Tue 10, 2019 6:50 am
I'm still disappointed and not ready to talk about it yet!!
Yep. I'm very upset as it cuts deeply, and MissVee's schadefreude and general glee and merriment rub sulfuric acid to all four wounds. I believe deeply this 4th failure renders the task almost insurmountable
Last edited by Grossefavourite on Sep Tue 10, 2019 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: SERENA Overcome With Nerves

Post by Grossefavourite » Sep Tue 10, 2019 10:21 am

Then again, Serena is partial to a catsuit so maybe she has 9 lives.

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