New York New York
If you can't win here...
 
   
login with facebook
   LIVE Scores     LIVE-Chat     Skan Contest     Prediction Game      Drive2Final Game    Top-10 Game     History     World Clock 
 Latest topics  	                     The Main Forum           	       
 YEC 2017 Draw and Results (29) Graveller  PLISKOVA Accused Of Theft (2) sekasi  Moscow: A fight for a bra...(0) Ace2Ace
 YEC PGame: Sunday start!!...(2) Graveller  lmao!!! (0) Grossefavou  Sharapova will play 2017 ...(125) Mytiwtiw
 Moscow Draw and Results (25) Ace2Ace  DEPRESSION In Tennis (0) Grossefavou  Zhuhai Tourney (?) (0) rex
 Player Of The Year (2) Ace2Ace  ITF general talks (167) Ace2Ace  Hong Kong Open: Draw and ...(14) Grossefavou
 SERENA'S Wedding (0) Grossefavou  Tianjin Open: Draw and Re...(12) Graveller  Garcia denied WC into Kre...(4) Graveller
more recent topics... 

tennisgamers.com Forum Index » WTA General Tennis Discussions » Hong Kong Open: Draw and Results
View previous topic :: View next topic 
Posted: Oct Sun 08, 2017 10:26 am       Hong Kong Open: Draw and Results
Ace2Ace
Site Admin

 
Joined14 Sep 2004
Posts20566


[1/wc] Elina Svitolina v Zarina Diyas
[Q] Grammatikopoulou  v Nicole Gibbs
Jennifer Brady v Misa Eguchi
Kurumi Nara v [8] Zhang Shuai

[3] Caroline Wozniacki v Eugenie Bouchard
[Q] Aoyama  v Lizette Cabrera
Su Jeong Jang v Shelby Rogers
[Q] Kato  v [7] Daria Gavrilova

--------- Bottom Half --------------

[5/wc] Elena Vesnina v Luksika Kumkhum
Kai-Chen Chang v Wang Qiang
Samantha Stosur v [wc] Lee Ya-Hsuan
[wc] Zhang Ling v [4] Aga Radwanska

[6] Anastasia Pavlyuchenkova v Timea Babos
[Q] Cako  v [Q] Hon
Naomi Osaka v [Q] Guarachi
Risa Ozaki v [2] Venus Williams
     


Last edited by Ace2Ace on Oct Sun 08, 2017 10:28 am;
Back to top      
Posted: Oct Sun 08, 2017 10:26 am       
Ace2Ace
Site Admin

 
Joined14 Sep 2004
Posts20566


Bad draw for Bouchard. I don't see her beating Wozz.
     
Back to top      
Posted: Oct Sun 08, 2017 10:50 am       
Grossefavourite
Accomplished

 
Joined27 Jul 2013
Posts3827


So Svitolina with her ugly game comes in as a WC to grab the No. 1 ranking. Let's hope she fails.
     
Back to top      
Posted: Oct Sun 08, 2017 2:27 pm       
Graveller
Commish

 
Joined17 Jun 2011
Posts11846
LocationAntwerp - Belgium


@ Grossefavourite:
 
With all her P5 titles this year, she would be the second one (after Garbine) who could justify being #1 in 2017....

Take away the money and the prestige, and then you see that tennis-wise it is harder to win a P5 or a Prem.mandatory compared to a slam: all top players are in the draw, but you get less time between matches.

In a slam you need talent to beat the top players.
In a Prem.5 or Prem.mand you need the same amount of talent to beat the same field of top players, but you also need to be fit and physically OK.

5/6 matches in in 7/8 days is harder than 7 matches in 14 days... and that extra 1 (or 2) matches against low-ranked players ain't gonna make up for the fitness requirement.

As for Svitolina; her slam-results in 2017 (8 weeks of tennis) were mediocre, so to get to #1 would mean that she was outstanding in the other 34 weeks.
     


Last edited by Graveller on Oct Sun 08, 2017 2:28 pm;

_________________
"Never argue with an idiot - they take you down to their level and then beat you on experience"

"Don't wrestle with a pig: you both get dirty, but the pig actually likes it"
Back to top      
Posted: Oct Sun 08, 2017 3:24 pm       
Ace2Ace
Site Admin

 
Joined14 Sep 2004
Posts20566


There are more random P5 winners than there are random Grand Slam winners. (Yes one could argue "of course, there are more P5s" Smile ).

It looks easy the way you explained it. But Grand Slam have more prestige, therefor there is more tension. The stakes are higher. Top players show up with more determination, more grit, because they know it happens only 4 times a year. There is more emotion, more recognition, more attention. All those things make them harder to tame, thus, more difficult to win than P5.
People don't ask how many P5 or T1 Seles or Steffi or Hingis has. Those are details for the experts.
There are 4 slams a year. And that's where all players are pouring their energy, making it hard for anyone to win.
     


Last edited by Ace2Ace on Oct Sun 08, 2017 4:05 pm;
Back to top      
Posted: Oct Sun 08, 2017 7:02 pm       
Graveller
Commish

 
Joined17 Jun 2011
Posts11846
LocationAntwerp - Belgium


@ Ace2Ace:
 
Not true: look at the HOF of Cinci, Canada and Rome since they are P5 (since 2008); the US Open alone had more random winners (Stosur, Pennetta,Stephens) than those three combined.

You obviously underestimate the quality of P5 winners...

Biggest "surprise" winner was Bencic, but she had to defeat SIX slam finalists (incl Serena) in SIX days to win it.

Showing that a P5 win can be harder than a slam
     


Last edited by Graveller on Oct Sun 08, 2017 7:06 pm;

_________________
"Never argue with an idiot - they take you down to their level and then beat you on experience"

"Don't wrestle with a pig: you both get dirty, but the pig actually likes it"
Back to top      
Posted: Oct Sun 08, 2017 7:51 pm       
Ace2Ace
Site Admin

 
Joined14 Sep 2004
Posts20566


In my opinion, it's easier to win P5 than Slam. Because a Bencic or a Brengle will have easier time beating a Serena or a before-Meldo Sharapova at a PM than at a Slam.

There is too much pressure and tension at slam. It may be the same Brengle vs Serena, or Bencic vs Serena, but the atmosphere is heavier... The stakes are higher. And the top player tend to prevail in those conditions...
Plus you have a whole day to think of the next match. All that waiting and preparing and strategizing adds to the pressure. Players get anxious waiting. There is more fear of losing.. etc..
Stosur, Stephen and likes are odd winners at slams. At P5, it's more normal for them to win. There is less exposure to the general public, less pressure on them to beat the top player.
P5 is easier, even though it's the same players.
That's why Wozniacki, Radwanska, Halep, Errani, Vesnina, Konta, Svitolina, Pliskova, Jankovic and many more, are P5 winners but are still slamless. The same matches they win at P5, are more difficult to win at slams.
     


Last edited by Ace2Ace on Oct Sun 08, 2017 9:47 pm;
Back to top      
Posted: Oct Mon 09, 2017 1:45 am       
Graveller
Commish

 
Joined17 Jun 2011
Posts11846
LocationAntwerp - Belgium


@ Ace2Ace:
 
I would consider your reasoning, if your list of P5 winners was correct.
But...
Konta NEVER won a P5
Vesnina NEVER won a P5
Errani NEVER won a P5
I can understand one mistake, but three mistakes gives me the impression that you just made up a list to prove a point.

(On the other hand, we also had slam winners like Bartoli and Schiavone to be added to Pennetta, Stephens and Stosur.)
     

_________________
"Never argue with an idiot - they take you down to their level and then beat you on experience"

"Don't wrestle with a pig: you both get dirty, but the pig actually likes it"
Back to top      
Posted: Oct Mon 09, 2017 9:02 am       
Ace2Ace
Site Admin

 
Joined14 Sep 2004
Posts20566


LOL ... I can't tell P5, P3, Premier, etc ... Sorry. For me, there are Slams and there are "Others". Some of the "Others" are bigger 'Others', and some are smaller 'Others'. Smile Smile

In short, it's easier to win Others than to win Slams. That was my main point.
Because the stakes are higher at slams.
Take Serena vs Bencic at any tournament: P5, P4,P3, whatever Px.
Take the same Serena vs Bencic at a slam.
It's not the same match as I have said in my earlier post, because of the stakes.
Bartoli, Schiavone, Stosur, Sloane.. are odd winners. Chances are, they won't win another slam any soon.
     


Last edited by Ace2Ace on Oct Mon 09, 2017 9:39 am;
Back to top      
Posted: Oct Mon 09, 2017 1:30 pm       
Graveller
Commish

 
Joined17 Jun 2011
Posts11846
LocationAntwerp - Belgium


@ Ace2Ace:
 
Bencic at that age, having such a run in a big game event: stakes must have been very high for her at that point. And she won... 😀

We'll agree to disagree: I've seen too many slams where the winner only faced one top10 player, and people rate that higher than someone beating multiple top10s in a non-slam event.
     

_________________
"Never argue with an idiot - they take you down to their level and then beat you on experience"

"Don't wrestle with a pig: you both get dirty, but the pig actually likes it"
Back to top      
Posted: Oct Fri 13, 2017 7:45 am       Re:Hong Kong Open: Draw and Results
rex
Commish

 
Joined04 Jun 2006
Posts2489


So.......computerized coin tosses on an iPad....
     
Back to top      
Posted: Oct Fri 13, 2017 9:23 am       Re:Hong Kong Open: Draw and Results
Ace2Ace
Site Admin

 
Joined14 Sep 2004
Posts20566


@ rex:
 ??? You lost me here.
     
Back to top      
Posted: Oct Fri 13, 2017 4:20 pm       Re:Hong Kong Open: Draw and Results
rex
Commish

 
Joined04 Jun 2006
Posts2489


@ Ace2Ace:
 
Watched the match this morning between Naomi and Pavly' in Hong Kong and the Chair used an iPad to determine which player would serve lst. Thus, for that match a computer program took the place of the Chair doing the coin toss. 

Since Naomi lost, I'm done with Hong Kong and I won't follow up to see whether the aforementioned practice is ongoing at this event and whether it'll become pervasive at other events. Beyond silly.....

     
Back to top      
Posted: Oct Fri 13, 2017 6:37 pm       
Ace2Ace
Site Admin

 
Joined14 Sep 2004
Posts20566


That is strange.. they watched the coin toss on a ipad? lol lol
is that for real???.. Wouldn't be easier to have a kid toss the coin?
I have to find the video... Smile
     
Back to top      
Posted: Oct Sat 14, 2017 11:39 am       
Grossefavourite
Accomplished

 
Joined27 Jul 2013
Posts3827


All the top players disappeared from this event.
     
Back to top      
  Page 1 of 1      
PredictionGame
Current Tournaments:
Enter Your Scores Here


ATP Basel
ATP Vienna

WTA Singapore YEC


Show Latest 120 Topics                      Show Latest 120 Topics


  

Google
Powered by phpBB  © phpBB Group phpBB Style by Trushkin.net