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Hong Kong Open: Draw and Results

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Hong Kong Open: Draw and Results

Post by Ace2Ace » Oct Sun 08, 2017 10:26 am

[1/wc] Elina Svitolina v Zarina Diyas#ed_op#br#ed_cl#[Q] Grammatikopoulou  v Nicole Gibbs#ed_op#br#ed_cl#Jennifer Brady v Misa Eguchi#ed_op#br#ed_cl#Kurumi Nara v [8] Zhang Shuai#ed_op#br#ed_cl##ed_op#br#ed_cl#[3] Caroline Wozniacki v Eugenie Bouchard#ed_op#br#ed_cl#[Q] Aoyama  v Lizette Cabrera#ed_op#br#ed_cl#Su Jeong Jang v Shelby Rogers#ed_op#br#ed_cl#[Q] Kato  v [7] Daria Gavrilova#ed_op#br#ed_cl##ed_op#br#ed_cl#--------- Bottom Half --------------#ed_op#br#ed_cl##ed_op#br#ed_cl#[5/wc] Elena Vesnina v Luksika Kumkhum#ed_op#br#ed_cl#Kai-Chen Chang v Wang Qiang#ed_op#br#ed_cl#Samantha Stosur v [wc] Lee Ya-Hsuan#ed_op#br#ed_cl#[wc] Zhang Ling v [4] Aga Radwanska#ed_op#br#ed_cl##ed_op#br#ed_cl#[6] Anastasia Pavlyuchenkova v Timea Babos#ed_op#br#ed_cl#[Q] Cako  v [Q] Hon#ed_op#br#ed_cl#Naomi Osaka v [Q] Guarachi#ed_op#br#ed_cl#Risa Ozaki v [2] Venus Williams
Last edited by Ace2Ace on Oct Sun 08, 2017 10:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Ace2Ace » Oct Sun 08, 2017 10:26 am

Bad draw for Bouchard. I don't see her beating Wozz.

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Post by Grossefavourite » Oct Sun 08, 2017 10:50 am

So Svitolina with her ugly game comes in as a WC to grab the No. 1 ranking. Let's hope she fails.

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Post by Graveller » Oct Sun 08, 2017 2:27 pm

<font color=brown>@ <b>Grossefavourite</b>:</font>
 
With all her P5 titles this year, she would be the second one (after Garbine) who could justify being #1 in 2017....

Take away the money and the prestige, and then you see that tennis-wise it is harder to win a P5 or a Prem.mandatory compared to a slam: all top players are in the draw, but you get less time between matches.

In a slam you need talent to beat the top players.
In a Prem.5 or Prem.mand you need the same amount of talent to beat the same field of top players, but you also need to be fit and physically OK.

5/6 matches in in 7/8 days is harder than 7 matches in 14 days... and that extra 1 (or 2) matches against low-ranked players ain't gonna make up for the fitness requirement.

As for Svitolina; her slam-results in 2017 (8 weeks of tennis) were mediocre, so to get to #1 would mean that she was outstanding in the other 34 weeks.
Last edited by Graveller on Oct Sun 08, 2017 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Ace2Ace » Oct Sun 08, 2017 3:24 pm

There are more random P5 winners than there are random Grand Slam winners. (Yes one could argue "of course, there are more P5s" :) ).#ed_op#br#ed_cl##ed_op#br#ed_cl#It looks easy the way you explained it. But Grand Slam have more prestige, therefor there is more tension. The stakes are higher. Top players show up with more determination, more grit, because they know it happens only 4 times a year. There is more emotion, more recognition, more attention. All those things make them harder to tame, thus, more difficult to win than P5.#ed_op#br#ed_cl#People don't ask how many P5 or T1 Seles or Steffi or Hingis has. Those are details for the experts.#ed_op#br#ed_cl#There are 4 slams a year. And that's where all players are pouring their energy, making it hard for anyone to win.#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
Last edited by Ace2Ace on Oct Sun 08, 2017 4:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Graveller » Oct Sun 08, 2017 7:02 pm

<font color=brown>@ <b>Ace2Ace</b>:</font>
 
Not true: look at the HOF of Cinci, Canada and Rome since they are P5 (since 2008); the US Open alone had more random winners (Stosur, Pennetta,Stephens) than those three combined.

You obviously underestimate the quality of P5 winners...

Biggest "surprise" winner was Bencic, but she had to defeat SIX slam finalists (incl Serena) in SIX days to win it.

Showing that a P5 win can be harder than a slam
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Post by Ace2Ace » Oct Sun 08, 2017 7:51 pm

In my opinion, it's easier to win P5 than Slam. Because a Bencic or a Brengle will have easier time beating a Serena or a before-Meldo Sharapova at a PM than at a Slam.

There is too much pressure and tension at slam. It may be the same Brengle vs Serena, or Bencic vs Serena, but the atmosphere is heavier... The stakes are higher. And the top player tend to prevail in those conditions...
Plus you have a whole day to think of the next match. All that waiting and preparing and strategizing adds to the pressure. Players get anxious waiting. There is more fear of losing.. etc..
Stosur, Stephen and likes are odd winners at slams. At P5, it's more normal for them to win. There is less exposure to the general public, less pressure on them to beat the top player.
P5 is easier, even though it's the same players.
That's why Wozniacki, Radwanska, Halep, Errani, Vesnina, Konta, Svitolina, Pliskova, Jankovic and many more, are P5 winners but are still slamless. The same matches they win at P5, are more difficult to win at slams.
Last edited by Ace2Ace on Oct Sun 08, 2017 9:47 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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Post by Graveller » Oct Mon 09, 2017 1:45 am

<font color=brown>@ <b>Ace2Ace</b>:</font>
 
I would consider your reasoning, if your list of P5 winners was correct.
But...
Konta NEVER won a P5
Vesnina NEVER won a P5
Errani NEVER won a P5
I can understand one mistake, but three mistakes gives me the impression that you just made up a list to prove a point.

(On the other hand, we also had slam winners like Bartoli and Schiavone to be added to Pennetta, Stephens and Stosur.)
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Post by Ace2Ace » Oct Mon 09, 2017 9:02 am

LOL ... I can't tell P5, P3, Premier, etc ... Sorry. For me, there are Slams and there are "Others". Some of the "Others" are bigger 'Others', and some are smaller 'Others'. :) :)

In short, it's easier to win Others than to win Slams. That was my main point.
Because the stakes are higher at slams.
Take Serena vs Bencic at any tournament: P5, P4,P3, whatever Px.
Take the same Serena vs Bencic at a slam.
It's not the same match as I have said in my earlier post, because of the stakes.
Bartoli, Schiavone, Stosur, Sloane.. are odd winners. Chances are, they won't win another slam any soon.
Last edited by Ace2Ace on Oct Mon 09, 2017 9:39 am, edited 6 times in total.

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Post by Graveller » Oct Mon 09, 2017 1:30 pm

<font color=brown>@ <b>Ace2Ace</b>:</font>
 
Bencic at that age, having such a run in a big game event: stakes must have been very high for her at that point. And she won... &#128512;

We'll agree to disagree: I've seen too many slams where the winner only faced one top10 player, and people rate that higher than someone beating multiple top10s in a non-slam event.
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